Modifying Tichy Flat Cars, Part III

In the first post I showed how I modified the deck and assembled the basic kit.

The second post covered scratchbuilding side sills and measuring and installing stake pockets.

The impetus for this particular project was a photo of a T&P flat car.

In this post I'll be looking at...

Rivets!

When I got back into the hobby and started looking at kitbashing or potentially scratchbuilding things, rivets sort of seemed like kryptonite. I collected as many articles as I could find, but still felt it was well beyond my capabilities.

There are three basic options for adding rivets to a model. The first, using a punch of some sort to emboss them won't work at this stage since the sides are already on the car. 

The second option, and a method I learned about from Ted Culotta, is harvesting rivets. You scrape the rivets off of a model (Athearn snow plows are a popular options), and then glue the individual rivets on the model.

Another option are the rivets Tichy sells, but they are quite large. I always thought you drilled a hole for every one, but later learned of those that would cut just the rivet head off, and then it's just like working with harvested rivets.

But the thing that finally put the possibility of adding rivets to models for me are the excellent Archer rivet decals (yes, I know there are others available, I have found their consistency and quality, particularly adhesion, to be unacceptable). I was comfortable with the idea of working with decals, so this was something I could do. But I appear to have exhausted my current supply, and since there aren't that many rivets and I'm always working to improve my skills, I decided to give harvesting rivets a try while I replenish my supply.

Harvesting rivets.

This requires a donor model and, as I found, a little patience. Athearn blue box models appear to be the most common source, especially the plow, but I don't have those. In fact, I have pretty much sold or given away any spare models that I won't use. I did have a bunch of NERS windows and tried one of those, but found that there's a reason to use the old Athearn kits. The rivets are larger (overscale, really). This is important because even with a razor blade, the kerf is reducing the amount of rivet you end up with.

I did have some parts for E&B Valley passenger cars, courtesy of Ted Culotta (thanks, Ted!), which is appropriate since this is a technique he uses frequently and has told me it's not that hard. I had kept these because the steps are excellent and I think I can use some for future heavyweight models. These have tons of oversized rivets. So I tried that.

With a single-edge razor blade I shaved off a bunch of rivets onto the box (because it's white and they'll be easy to see).

Not all will be usable (some too small), but it's not all that bad. Simply wetting the corner of a scalpel or hobby knife is enough to pick up the rivets. Overall it goes pretty quickly, although I found that gluing them sometimes made it tough. I tried putting either CA or wetting it with styrene cement first to give it a little tack, then carefully wicking CA from the side seemed to work OK. Eventually I decided that gel AC (that dries slower) gave me just enough time to put it in the correct position. Once dried, I brushed styrene cement across the rivets to ensure they were fully adhered.

Styrene cement melts the plastic, but I find that if I brush it on and I'm careful not to touch it, then it retains its shape while it is softened, but otherwise doesn't cause any issues.

I copied the rivet pattern from the model on the first side.

For the second side, I realized that the rivet pattern on the CP car was different, so I followed the drawing in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia for the other side. Although I didn't make major modifications to the underframe to match the prototype CP car, I lined up the rivets with the underframe components where I could.

For comparison, this is a box car end I made as an experiment years ago with Archer rivets. A few have been rubbed off. This is an Improved Dreadnaught End for a 10' 0" IH car. I was kitbashing the Intermountain model for a class of NH box cars, but Intermountain has since released the correct model. I shortened the end at the top and bottom, and the original part was welded at the center, so I added the rivet strip.

Archer vs Harvesting

For that rivet strip across the center, definitely Archer. For individual rivets it's not all that different. With a gel AC, you'll have a little time to adjust the location, and with the Archer decals you can do the same while it's wet. When I did this end, I attached the decals directly to the end. In the future I would use Future to provide a better surface. Note that on the end I made, I also included the smaller intermediate rivets that attach the interior framing to the ends, something that is missing on most commercial models.

I'm comfortable enough with both approaches, so I think I would go the Archer route when there are a significant amount of rivets, and always if there are rows of more than a handful of rivets. 

Modifying the Tichy Flat Car, Part II

Part I here, and the photo that inspired it here.

With the basic car built, we need to look at the side sills. This is the most complicated part of the conversion, but it also gives me the opportunity to try some new skills.

Looking at the side sill casting itself, it's not a very complicated part. There are some rivets, and holes for the grab irons and stake pockets. The fact that the stake pockets are separate parts has a huge impact on being able to modify this model, as we'll see in a moment.

But the first thing we need to consider is how to make the longer side sills.

Option 1: Extend at either end.

This creates a much longer space between the first stake pocket and the end of the car. But the bigger issue is that the rivets for the bolster are out of line. We could consider moving these rivets, but the extended space between the end and the stake pockets will be noticeable.

Option 2: Extend from the middle.

Just like the deck, we could cut the side sills in the middle, and extend it that way. Since we didn't alter the relationship of the bolster from the end of the car, that takes care of that issue. But the relationship of the rivets for the crossbearers and crossties don't match, and it makes the spacing between the two center stake pockets noticeably too wide.

Option 3: Make multiple cuts.

This is a possibility I considered. But the stake pockets are almost evenly spaced (within 1/2" in most cases), so this requires a lot of little cuts.

Option 4: Scratchbuild the sides.

This is both easier, and perhaps a bit harder, than it seems. But it will also allow us to get the proper look. So that's what I've done.

I found that some .040" x .125" strip styrene was a good match for the basic dimensions of the model's side sill. It's just a matter of cutting it to size.

This is the larger of the new side sills compared to the original.

Then I needed to lay out the stake pockets. Starting with the CP car, I used the drawing for the CP car for guidance (since they are similar lengths. The center line for my car (yours might be slightly different due to cutting and sanding differences) was 2.8610 on my digital calipers. To the first stake pocket, 17" from the center line, is .1915".

Now the next several stake pockets aren't precisely even. To the next one over it's 3'-5", then 3'-4 1/2", then 3'-4 3/4". Because I knew there was going to be some variance simply due to my ability to precisely align everything, I stuck with one measurement of .4707" for all three. The next pocket is spaced closer 2-3/4" closer than the widest spacing. Since this was the shortest span, I opted to measure from the end to the first stake pocket, .2300", and used the wide spacing of .4707" between the first and second pockets from the end. That made the remaining spacing noticeably closer, as it should be.

You can see the center line of the new stake pocket locations compared to the original. The first pocket on both are very close to the same spacing.

Once I had them all marked, I carried those marks over to the second side sill. I then flipped that so I could carry the marks to the other half of both sills. Now I had the stake pocket center lines marked along both side sills.

I tacked the two pieces together back-to-back with CA. I carried the center line mark across the top edge. Using this as a guide, I used the model sill as a drilling template by lining up the center line to the center of the stake pocket location on the original piece. I then drilled all the way through the model sill and both side sills.

For the T&P car, which is only 1 board longer than the CP car, I had no drawing to identify the stake pocket placement. So I tacked the completed sill for the CP car flush to one end, and drilled out the stake pockets to the center line. I then tacked it to the other end, and drilled the other half.

This means that for the T&P car, I used the same spacing as the CP car, except a slightly wider spacing between the two center stake pockets, which happens to be a pretty close match to the center spacing of the NC&StL car.

In these pictures, the three pairs of side sills are aligned at the center line. 

Here they are aligned flush to the end.

You'll note that my hole drilling skills are inconsistent at best. That's OK, this will help align them, and if I find one is too far off, I'll just get rid of the locating pins. Since the stake pockets and side sills are styrene, the pins aren't really necessary.

Here's are the three length sides with stake pockets installed.

You can see how the stake pockets highlight the differences in the sides. As it turned out, for the pocket locations that were mis-drilled, it was easy enough to just squash down the mounting pins since they are very small. In fact, when gluing styrene pockets to a scratchbuilt styrene side in the future, I probably won't bother trying to drill the holes. It just didn't provide a significant benefit.

And here are the sides installed on the car bodies.

One thing I hadn't determined yet is whether I needed to worry about the gaps in the center sill. You can see here that the gap is noticeable above the trucks. 

On the car built as designed on the left, there is a single gap that will be filled by the installation of the coupler pocket. The car on the right has Kadee pockets, so I have a gap on either side of the bolster to fill. Also to come - rivets, end sills, brake appliances, and other finishing details.

Kerite Wire load on T&P Flat Car

More photos of open-top cars from the collection Dick provided. Prior posts are here, here, here, and here.

This photo of T&P 5251 says on the back. "Loaded Seymour, Connecticut" with a date of September 15, 1948. The photo says NYNH&H on the front, but no actual location is noted. The back is also stamped Kerite Co, 30 Church St, New York, NY.

A quick search online informs me that the Kerite company manufactured high voltage wire in Seymour, which is located on the Naugatuck Line of the New Haven.

Here's a 1911 Ad:

Loading this car to just about anywhere other than towards New England or the east coast would be within the car routing rules. The question is what load did it carry to get to CT?

The Prototype

T&P 5251 was from the 5000-5299 series of 42'6" flat cars. There were still 285 of them in 1950. The cars were built in 1928, and according to Richard Hendrickson in the June, 1993 Railmodel Journal, were delivered with black underframes and freight car red bodies. They were later painted in all freight car red, and most ran into the '60s. The car itself is based on a USRA design that was never built by the USRA. However, there were a number of other cars with the same basic design and dimensions built prior to the USRA design.

Even though the T&P car looks nearly identical to the NC&StL car that the kit is based on, it is a longer car. 

The deck of the NC&StL car is 40'-4" long and the T&P car is 40'-9", or 1'-5" longer. The total car length is 40'-9" vs 42'-10" or a full 2'-1" longer. But that only equates to a little more than 2/8" in HO scale. 

There is a photo of the T&P car in the 1931 Car Builders' Cyclopedia (the same one used in the article), but no plan. The 1928 Car Builder's Cyclopedia has plans for the NC&StL car, and for a similar CP flat car that is 42'-2" (also mentioned in the article).

1950 Rosters

These are the cars mentioned in Richard's article. For specific details, check photos, etc. But I've indicated the quantity in revenue service in 1950. These cars were built over a long period, and to similar designs, but they weren't identical. I've noted the differences in length below.

• CN 651460-653768 (1,910) 42'-2"
• CP 306500-307099 (466) 42'-2"
• CP 307100-307499 (190) 43'-0"
• DL&W 16350-16399 (43) 40'-10"
• NC&StL 70100-70299 (105) 40'-9"
• SP&S 32005-32054 (9*) 41'-9"
• SSW 81000-81547 (161) 42'-10"
• T&P 5000-5299 (285) 42'-10"

* The remaining cars are noted in the ORER as 32008-10, 12-13, 18, 24, 34, 36.

Two additional CP groups have similar dimensions, but I don't know if they are the same basic design. They are not noted in the article:

• CP 307500-308699 (714) 42'6"
• CP 308700-308999 (130) 43'-0"

Modeling

The Tichy 41-foot (40-foot?) flat car referenced in the article is the best starting place for this car. The kits are easy to build, and also easy to modify. I am working on several different approaches for modeling a 36' New Haven flat car with the kit. 

The base kit has 12 stake pockets like the T&P car, but there's also a low-side gondola version that can be built without the sides as a flat car with 10 stake pockets. The sides and ends are easy to replace and, being a flat car, don't have many rivets either.

Prototype Railroad Modeling Volume Four (Speedwitch Media) also has a detailed article by Ted Culotta on building and upgrading the Tichy kit, although it is for NC&StL car, which is the prototype for the kit.

In Richard's article, he notes the modifications he made to the Tichy kit, most of which concern the end sill which was pressed steel instead of the steel channel that is on the model.

Ted's article includes upgrading the model to AB brakes. Note that the location of the components are different on the T&P car than the NC&StL car in his article.

Since it's quite difficult to tell that a given model is 2/8" longer than another when coupled together, it's up to you whether it's worth the effort. But for a T&P or CP modeler, or somebody who wants to work on their kitbashing skills, it's a great model to work with.